A discussion on RPS

[hils]

I've just had a rather interesting discussion with lexalicious70 and I thought I'd open it up here.

First of all a history of me and RPS. Those of you who have been on my flist for a few years will know that RPS used to be a major squick of mine that I would avoid at all costs. I got into it thanks to a combination of jacqui_hw telling me that Kate Bosworth broke up with Orlando Bloom because he was spending too much time with Sean Bean (I never found out if this was true but it amused me) and caz sending me some Bloom/Bean fic to read. This was back in the days when LotR was big.

I had my eyes half closed as I read my first RPS fic but damn me if I didn't like it. I read a few more under semi-protest and after that I was hooked (and made the transition to Bean/Viggo which was my primary OTP for quite a while)

Since then I've had no problems reading or writing it.

Today Lexi said she was surprised she'd never come across and James Marsters/Michael Rosenbaum RPS. I, correct me if I'm wrong, said that James fans weren't really into the whole RPS thing. I speculated it's because James is so accessible to his fans that people see him as a real person rather than a character. Certainly that was what always used to put me off RPS. These are real people.

The thing with LotR is that a lot of the actors were aware of the fic being written about them and even encouraged it. Maybe that's why I had less of a problem with it. I think a lot of Bandom is the same.

But I would never write RPS involving James, mostly because I've met him so many times it would be weird. Like writing about one of my friends or something (I'm not saying James is my friend but he's lost a lot of that objectivity and idealism. I've seen him in bad moods and upset, one of my friends wound up sat next to him on a plane and he was an asshole to her and apologised later)

So, what do you think? Does meeting an actor affect whether you would write RPS about them? Does it depend on whether they mind or not? I'm just curious.

I've never met anyone I've written RPS about so I can't say whether meeting Tom, Michael, Bean or Viggo would affect that. Maybe I'll find out in September if Michael doesn't cancel the con.

Comments

[touchstoneaf.livejournal.com]

after i met Michael, i couldn't read any RPS about him for a couple of months. It seemed weird, cuz as you said, it made him 'real' to me, you know, not just another 'character'.

i will reread old faves on occasion, now i can keep that 'character' separate in my head from the 'real Michael' i met. But i wouldn't write it.

I'm not into writing about real people, actually. I was surprised i enjoyed reading about them at all; but it takes a really good story to get me to do it.

so i feel ya.

[hils.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I'm glad it's not just me :)

[elandrialore.livejournal.com]

Meeting Michael didn't put me off RPS, but for some reason meeting Joe and David from SGA made me think about it really hard. Less because I was now weirded out that they were 'real people' and more because I was like, "Well crap, they're so amazing, how in the hell am I supposed to write them now?!" Not that Michael wasn't amazing, but I was able to spend more time with Joe and David so I got to see more of their amazingness from a closer perspective.

[hils.livejournal.com]

That's really interesting. I never thought about it from that perspective before

Thanks for commenting

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

I have never written James RPS, but I read it. The problem being that it ends up as Spike rather than James that put me off.

I like Jared/Jensen RPS, but that might be because I do not see wincest. While with James, I do not see him in a relationship with a man, but can see Spike!

[hils.livejournal.com]

Oh, so there is James RPS out there? I've never come across it before.

I agree that I don't see James in a relationship with another man but I don't think I'd write him with his female co-stars either

[pepperjackcandy.livejournal.com]

As a non-real-person-ficcer, I think I'd only feel comfortable partaking in RPF of any flavor, slash, het or gen, if the real person in question explicitly said that ze didn't mind.

[hils.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think that can make a big difference

[lovinspike247.livejournal.com]

Oh man, I'm so having this problem at the moment. But with bands instead of actors. The more time I spent with the bands outside of the gigs, the more uncomfortable I was with reading fic about them. A few times I was sitting there thinking, "I'm drinking with someone I read porn about. Fuck".

Thing is, even when reading fic about them, I still saw those in the fic as characters. We as fans know nothing about their personal lives or how they act around their friends and family, so really, I was reading fic about "Gabe Saporta". And when I met the bands in the past couple of weeks, I still kept that divide. Kind of. Like, we had a rule where LJ was not mentioned at all. Fandom and RL? Non-mixy things. RL = Gabe, fandom = "Gabe".

The fact that all the bands I read fic about have talked about fanfic does help a lot. Pete Wentz makes references to it all the time, usually without being prompted. I know for a fact that Cobra Starship have read fanfic about themselves because not only have they talked about it in interviews (Alex Suarez doesn't care, he just wants to top!), but Vicky-T commented on someone's fic. The fic in question was femslash that including Vicky-T in the pairing. And hell, according to Frank Iero, Gerard Way used to write Planet Of The Apes fic! There are loads of other examples out there, and, for the most part, they've been positive (My Chemical Romance just want fans to stop with the incest).

So yeah, it's awkward, but the bands mostly don't care. So I'm kind of happy to keep reading fic, though there are still issues.

(I'm sorry if this makes no sense at all. I'm really ill at the moment, and even though I have to be up in six hours, I can't sleep.)

[hils.livejournal.com]

Aww!

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Spending a lot of time with someone would definitely put me off reading and writing fic about them, even if they don't mind

[tasabian.livejournal.com]

I love this quote from James about working with Michael:

Michael's got his own thing. I think that Michael's thing and my thing might be kind of similar, which might be why we got along so well. There's a dirty, dangerous prankster down in there, and there's secrets down in there, and you get that naughty fun kind of thing
With these kinds of quotes, who needs RPS? "Naughty fun", indeed!

[lexalicious70.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you for that!!! *Loves James Marsters even more now*

And oh yes. There's a wealth of treasure in Our Boy. Secrets indeed . . .

[ryo-girl.livejournal.com]

I've never had a real big problem with RPS, but there have been times I've been hesitant.

I remember not wanting to get into Jensen/Jared, for the exact reasons you were talking about - I felt like I knew the boys, and reading or writing fic about them made me uncomfortable.

But it got easier once I was able to kind of form this idea of who Jensen was, and realize that, no matter how many interviews I've read or cons I've seen or whatever, I don't know Jensen or Jared. The Jensen and Jared in fiction are just that - fiction. I don't have a problem anymore.

The one that does confuse me is - I absolutely will not read John Barrowman RPS. And there aren't many who write it. I can't quite figure out WHY I refuse to read or write it, but I will not. I mean, the guy's openly gay, married. That might be it - it's easy to read RPS when you know one of the fundamental parts of the fic - the fact that the two in it are gay - isn't true at all.

But to take someone who IS gay, and to then write about them, it feels more like a massive crossing of a line. And, in JB's case, any fiction that's not of him and his husband paints him as a cheater, which he isn't, so that automatically makes it OOC.

[hils.livejournal.com]

Do you think you'd stop reading Jared/Jensen if yoy ever met either of them at a convention or something? I'm just curious

And I didn't even know people wrote JB fic. Yeah, I think I would steer clear of it too, for the reasons you listed

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

This is sort of connected to your subject in way--many many *many* years ago, my sis and I went to a con (i don't remember which one) to see Tom Baker, who at that time was just wrapping up his tenure as Doctor Who. He was wonderful with everyone, kind ot his audience, and super nice to all the fans, just seemed pleased as punch to be there. My sis, who'd always liked Tom's Doctor in an offhand sort of way, fell violently in love with him, the real person, and it ruined the character of the Doctor for her. She said she couldn't watch the show anymore because she hated this imposter wearing the love of her life's face. Soooooooo...I'm guessing RPS would have pissed her off something bad. I guess the point is I think that meeting the actor might make you dislike the thought of intruding on their personal lives even in a fictional way.

[hils.livejournal.com]

James was the first actor I ever met and for a while I found it hard to write Spike fic afterwards because it felt weird

I got over it though ;)

[drusplace.livejournal.com]

As someone already mentioned, most James RPS fic that I've seen seems to take the character of "Spike" and renames him James. So I really never read much. I'd rather just read the actual Spike fics.

[hils.livejournal.com]

Exactly! LOL!

[x-pixel-x.livejournal.com]

One of my first fandoms was Sentinel, where anything even remotely approaching RPS was NOT COOL. TS is where I 'grew up' as a ficcer, and it was a NO NO. One of my good friends in the fandom left because she was into Popslash and couldn't handle how it was frowned upon. So thats my background.
I still don't feel entirely comfortable with it. I've read a bit of Johnny (Depp)/Orlando and like maybe 2 J2 fics, and didn't mind, but it was easy for me to see all of the above as characters more than real people (mostly because I'm not heavily involved in either fandom.) I can not however, read fic involving Torchwood actors, I tried, and I just couldn't. I don't know what it is, I mean I read wincest, dark, kinky, an mpreg here or there, whatever, I have pretty broad taste, but can't handle TW RPF. I've never tried (or really seen to be honest) RPF involving SV actors.
Its probably got something to do with how I've never been the sort to keep up with the actors much. I do however make an effort to follow Gareth David -Lloyd and John Barrowman a bit more than is normal for me. Maybe that has more to do with why I can't read the RPF, I feel like I know them a bit more as people. I can't imagine meeting an actor and then reading RPF about them and being able to keep it all straight in my head.

[hils.livejournal.com]

You're not the only one who has used Torchwood as an example of RPS they won't read, and I definitely think how well you know an actor will infuence your interest in RPS

Thanks for commenting :)

[redeem147.livejournal.com]

I would never be involved with RPS, reading or writing, so knowing an actor wouldn't make a difference. As far as I'm concerned they're all real people and it's crossing a line.

[hils.livejournal.com]

Fair enough :)

[lexalicious70.livejournal.com]

I really didn't get into writing RPS until I heard Michael host "Loveline" last year.

And then I understood that even if he knew, he probably wouldn't mind. ;)

[hils.livejournal.com]

I still haven't listened to Loveline

[(Anonymous)]

There was a lot more Michael Rosenbaum / Tom Welling RPS in the early days of Smallville now it is primarily written if they are entangled with Jared / Jensen RPS which I do not read. Michael/Tom are the only RPS pairing of interest to me. I have and do still view RPS as fiction and as characters no different than the Clex fiction I read. The situations written about in RPS are not apt to become reality.

I have met Michael and Tom in more than fan capacity as well as Jared and Jensen. It has colored how I read Smallville fiction or RPS related to them but I approach it as entertainment and not as truth about either man.

Michael and Tom are aware fan fiction and RPS are being written about them. Michael doesn't mind and Tom tends to ignore its existence.

[yavannauk.livejournal.com]

Meeting actors has, in the past, killed my ability to write FPS about them, let alone RPS. I just got to a point where it felt like crossing a line even writing their characters together. And this despite the fact that they were pretty touchy feely together in RL (though just as friends) and both happily played up the slashy aspects of their characters' on screen relationship.

[hils.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I felt like that the first time I met James. It wore off though ;)

[hobbituk.livejournal.com]

I don't like RPS fic. I would be completely mortified if I read fic about me whatever the plot, and I don't see that the career choice another person made should mean that it's open season for fantasies to be written and published on the internet about them. The characters they play? Fictional. Already made up. So yeah, fine. But about them as people? No. They are entitled to a private life. Bad enough that fans stalk them whenever they go out!

Also, most of the RPS fic I have seen insists on making everyone gay. Nothing wrong with being gay, I have several friends who are gay. Funnily enough, when we have talked about this subject, they have said they would be majorly squicked if, for example, they found they were featured in a fic with heavy het sex scenes because that wasn't true and who they were.

[hils.livejournal.com]

That's really interesting. To be honest, as I said in my original post, a lot of the actors don't seem to mind and/or even encourage it

I think if an actor actively said they didn't like it I would stop reading/writing it

[dametokillfor.livejournal.com]

As someone said before I have this problem with bands. Sort of. Meeting a band doesn't really put me off writing and reading RPS about them. When I met Avenged Sevenfold back in January, I was sat in a 24 hour McDonalds writing slash about them only a few hours later. But I think that was due to the fact it was about 2AM and I was too tired to give a shit. I personally find meeting them helps me with the characterization.

The only comments my chosen fandom have said about the work was when Synyster Gates actually had to deny any relations between him and the other guitarist. And even that comment was preceded by an apology - showing me that he's not remotely bothered by the idea. He knows the truth about himself, so do I - even if I do warp everything, haha.

If someone speaks out and says they really don't like it, I won't read or write it, I respect that, but otherwise my dirty little mind won't be silenced, heh.

[hils.livejournal.com]

Hehe! YAY! Good for you

[romanyg.livejournal.com]

*coming in late*

I keep forgetting how *huge* Jossverse fandom is. Which is silly since we were both in it for years and didn't meet until Smallville. I hung out in the Spike/Angel corner and one of the BNFs of that pairing also hosts a Jossverse RPF site. So I can tell you that there's quite a bit of JM RPS out there and it's mostly JM/DB. And the funny thing, she (the site host) didn't start writing JM fic *until* she met him at a con.

Myself, I don't really go looking for RPF - I prefer FPF - but I'll read it if I already know the author. I told myself that I would never write it, but I did once and still feel a bit guilty. Even though I've never met the people in that particular fic, I still felt like I was imposing.

[hils.livejournal.com]

Interesting that there is RPF for the jossverse out there. Like you said, it's so huge it's no wonder I missed it.

JM/DB though? Don't see it I have to say

[dachelle.livejournal.com]

Here via metafandom's links. I actually didn't start writing RPS in my fandom - Libertines/Babyshambles/DPT slash - until after I'd met Carl, one of the band members. It might be different if I was good friends with any of the boys, and one of my friends who does know them won't read fic, although she's fine with others writing it. It's just odd for her. It probably helps that I write primarily AU, so the dividing line is pretty strong for me between real!Carl Barat and Peter Doherty and my fic versions of them. Even RL-based fic isn't affected for me by meeting them, though. I mean, I saw Carl again in London a couple of months ago and met Drew McConnell from Babyshambles for the first time, and as soon as I got back I was writing a smut ficlet about them. The oddest thing about that for me was that I'm usually so Peter/Carl OTP! Also, Carl has explicitly stated that he doesn't mind fic, and there's anecdotal evidence that Peter's read fic and never said anything about it - if anything, his comments about his relationship with Carl have encouraged the slashy speculation.

So, long story short, meeting the objects of my fandom hasn't affected my fic writing or reading at all. I think that knowing that the boys don't mind did help me get over my initial reservations about reading and writing fic, though. I'd never seriously read fic in any fandom before the Libs, and although I wasn't opposed to RPS, it was a little iffy for me. Had the boys stated that they were opposed to fic, I probably wouldn't be involved in the fic side of fandom, because I do respect them and their wishes. Honestly, though, with Peter's issues the fact that there's fic out there that imagines him having sexual relationships with his bandmates is probably the least of his worries.

[hils.livejournal.com]

Honestly, though, with Peter's issues the fact that there's fic out there that imagines him having sexual relationships with his bandmates is probably the least of his worries.

I would definitely agree with that!

I definitely think it makes a difference whether the objects of the fic have stated that they don't mind (and sometimes even like it)

Thanks for taking the time to comment :)

Here via metafandom

[sidewinder.livejournal.com]

So, what do you think? Does meeting an actor affect whether you would write RPS about them? Does it depend on whether they mind or not? I'm just curious.


It's not whether I've met them or not, but how well I know them. (And this applies for me both to musician as well as actor RPF, or any other kind of celebrity fiction.)

That is, there is one actor I know fairly well; used to (and on occasion still will) write adult/slash fic about his tv or movie characters. But I just so cannot go there on writing RPF with him even when the ideas have struck for me pretty hard, because...it just icks me too much. I can't separate even a "fictionalized" version of him from the "real" real person I know.

But if it's just an actor I see at a convention, or meet briefly in an autograph session, or a musician I get lucky to meet a few times or backstage...it's not enough "interference" to stop me from writing it. I can still go back to writing the RPF because I still only know the person as some kind of "personna", a stage(d) presence I can build off of in a story without having any idea how it may or may not *really* reflect on their personalities and lives.

So basically...I need some distance from my bright slashy objects in RPF, but not so exclusively that I bannish the thought of ever meeting them in the flesh.

Re: Here via metafandom

[hils.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think I would pretty much agree with you there :)

Thanks for commenting

[chasingtides.livejournal.com]

I'm not big on RPF. I started off (until... um, last year?) in book fandoms - places where RPF doesn't exist. I was in Harry Potter when the movies started and I kept a strict line in my head between characters and actors. I wrote futurefic, so it was important for me, mentally, to separate these characters who were going through adult situations from young actors. I admit that I found - and find - the people who blended character and actor to be fairly creepy. (I was in LotR for a while, too, but the actors were too different from what I had pictured in my head when I read the books for me really to get into the movie fandom.)

Then, last summer, I got into the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead fandom. There isn't much of a fanbase, but a significant portion of it (at least what I found) also supports RPS. It was explained to me and someone sent me fic. I read and liked it, much to my chagrin.

RPF is something of a guilty pleasure at this point. If an actor/real person even mentioned that they didn't like it, I would stop reading fic about them immediately. On the other hand, some folk, in my view, are either inviting such speculation* or openly don't care. At that point, I feel I've been given carte blanche.

*I view celebrity magazines/TV shows/etc to be a form of RPF. While they are rarely slashy, they speculate and write in a way not entirely dissimilar to RPF folk. Actually, I view RPF writers/readers/fans to be more honest because they call it "fiction" while such magazines and TV shows call it truth until they are proven wrong.

[hils.livejournal.com]

Sounds like we've gone through a similar journey with RPF. I'm with you in that I definitely wouldn't read something if an actor objected

I like your thoughts on magazines though. I never considered that before

Thanks for commenting

[angiepen.livejournal.com]

[Here from metafandom. [wave]]

For me, it depends what you mean by "meet." If I went to a premiere, say, or a convention, and the "meeting" was at the front of an autograph line and our sole interaction was something along the lines of -- "Love your work!" "Thanks!" [scribblescribble] -- then it wouldn't make any difference. I mean, yeah, technically that's a "meeting" but I don't think it actually counts.

OTOH, if we actually hung out and chatted, even online, that'd make a difference for me, and has. I don't mean me checking someone's blog periodically and reading their entries, but actually hanging out together, where we were speaking to one another and the other person was aware of me, knew my (online) name, had some idea of who I was. In that case, that sort of casual but still significant "knowing" a person, I'd have to throttle way back and would certainly never write porn about that person. (Or never again, if I had in the past.)

For example, I had that sort of casual online-knowing relationship with a favorite writer for a while, back whenever. And in an RPS story years later I needed a female horse person and she popped into my head, so I used her. But the portrayal was 1) very AU, and 2) completely positive, and 3) completely non-sexual. If I'd known her even better -- if we'd e-mailed back and forth personally, for example, rather than just chatting together in a group on a BBS, or if I'd met her in person on any kind of regular basis -- then I'd never have used her at all.

Because the bigger the part a character has in a story I'm writing, or the more negative or sexual the portrayal, the more they're just characters to me, and not actually people I'm writing about. The more someone is a person I know, the less they're a character. It's sort of a sliding scale, depending on how I met the person and what kind of interactions we had and over what period of time. But yes, it could make a very considerable difference.

Angie

[hils.livejournal.com]

Thanks for commenting! I'm getting some really interesting responses to this. I didn't even know it had been posted on metafandom. LOL!

I have to say that my level of meetings does only go as far as conventions, but I've seen James at so many and chatted to him several times that I feel like I know him, even though I really don't, and that's enough for me

Doesn't stop me writing about fictional characters he's played though. LOL

Here from Metafandom

[montisello.livejournal.com]

How weird that this popped up on the flist right after I finished my first RPH fic. I'm guessing most the issues you've raised works for het fic as well as slash, so I'm gonna jump in and add my two cents.

At first I was hesitant to pursue writing this story, but RPF is big in the Supernatural fandom and that encouraged me to go ahead. I don't think I'll write in it again, but that's mostly because the Winchesters are more interesting to me than the actors. I will occasionally read it, if its by a favorite author or such, but I'll stick with the Winchesters.

Why did I write RPH in the first place? Pure fun, baby. I took a basic daydream most of us have and ran with it -- a fan meets the object of her affection at a con and true love ensues. If I actually met said actor I don't think I would have changed anything at all, since it was all pure fantasy and speculation to begin with.

Re: Here from Metafandom

[hils.livejournal.com]

Heheh! Excellent!

Thanks for commenting

here from metafandom

[proleptic-fancy.livejournal.com]

RPF used to squick me ridiculously hard, but now I tend to think of it as writing about characters that just happen to look like real people. However, I think for me at least, actually meeting the people in question would break down that nice compartmentalization I have going on, and I probably wouldn't be able to keep writing about them. Same thing if the person actually stated that RPF bothered them.

On the other hand, I also wrote epic dramas about people I went to high school with and knew really well, and they loved them, so I guess at some point it comes out the other side and I can be comfortable writing about people again if I know they'll be comfortable too. It's that weird middle ground between complete fiction and close relationship that makes things hard, which is why I have no intention of meeting any of the subjects of RPS I've written. Hopefully that made sense!

Re: here from metafandom

[hils.livejournal.com]

Yup, that makes sense. Thanks for commenting :)

[kalpurna.livejournal.com]

You know, I always thought that I'd be discouraged by meeting actors, and I also used to be squicked by RPS, and bandom has just SHATTERED that. For instance, I just yesterday wrote fic because I'd gone to a show at a small venue and hung out with the musicians afterwards for a while, and I based my characterization on my in-person observations of them. I'm not prepared to say for sure that this is okay or non-creepy, but it certainly HAPPENED, so, um. I don't know. It's interesting, I guess? These are the same guys who have absolutely read and, possibly, commented on fic about themselves, so there's whole levels of creepy there where they're stalking us while we stalk them, and I don't know. I wish there were more hard-core meta-ers in bandom, that's what I wish.

[hils.livejournal.com]

Oh, I definitely think bandom is an exception to the rule. From what I understand most bands love that people write RPS about them. Hehe!

here via metafandom

[pensnest]

I've never wanted to write RPF about actors, because if I'm taken with what they're doing on a particular show (or film), it's the character I like, not the actor playing him/her. In my days as a Trekkie I was fascinated by Data and all my stories were about that character, more or less, but it would never have occurred to me to be interested in Brent Spiner as a subject for fiction. I was only interested in Brent Spiner as an actor.

Now I've gone over to the dark side and write RPF, but it's popslash. I have met one of my Adored Ones, to the extent of getting an autograph, etc, but it was perfectly easy to remember that this unreasonably gorgeous human being was not really the person I've been writing about - it's more that "In this story, the part of 'Lance Bass' will be played by Lance Bass", or that's how I think of it. Perhaps it's easier to keep the separation because ex-members of Nsync are not quite as available for actual conversation as the bandslash boys, etc. It might be a bit strange to get one's 'canon' direct from the person in question rather than via interviews and appearances!

Re: here via metafandom

[hils.livejournal.com]

I think the whole RPF about actor thing comes from the fact that a lot of the time these guys spend 8,9,10 hours a day with each other and if they get along it's going to be a very close friendship. That's what got me into it in the first place